I'm thinking of starting from scratch since my ideas don't look that great to me anymore.

If you want to start over, i'd be glad to help you build a new site :).

I was thinking of using this wiki still, since it's easy to use and anyone can just edit ideas. Wikis are great for colaberation projects like this.

One thing I'm thinking is maybe having 8 different kinds of stones is too much. Maybe the game is played with just 2 (one type for each player) like go. Not sure. I've been distracted by other stuff lateley. feel free to post any thougths you have here. Looks like right now it's just us two.

Oh, and I added a chat room ->
:)

Oh wait,the show has more than 1 kind. I wasn't thinking about that, still i'd like to take this "back to basics."

I still believe we should contact nickelodeon and ask them to release proper rules instead of improvising our own or something...

Well i added some rules and redesigned some the page :)

Unity: And if they don't want to put the work in to that, what harm is there in makiing a fan game? If Nick/Viacom really wants us to not make the game, then I'll gladly shut this down but in the meantime I don't see any harm on working on a project to show our love of Avatar.

And those docs were my little bro's. Sorry about that, I was meaning to delete them after I printed them for him.

I made a spanish traduction of this page :). I don't think there'll be big problem about doing that. If any of you know a little of spanish, can help me to do the page :) Thank You.

The page is http://paishoes.pbwiki.com (The link is on the side bar :)

I've had an offer to set up with a wiki-pedia style wikim whi8ch sounds good to me. The person is even willing to donate a domain name!

By the way, I sent an e-mail to nick, asking the writers of avatar if they have any rules/advice. I'm not really expecting an answer back, since most likely they are pretty busy. (Now I'm kicking myself for not asking them in person at comicon! )

Si. No problemo.
My Spanish is terrible though so I'm afriad I can't offer any help. :P

Umm, I just changed all of the rules because the old ones were broken. If you don't like the new ones, feel free to change them back.

No problem. These rules look really good. The rules were really rough before. I like the anallogies of the four nations/elements.

Some programs (Specificly microsoft Word and Frontpage) add wonky tags that make things over stuffed and cause errors. Unfortunitly, when I tried getting rid of the tags it messed up the error. i'm in the process of fixing, but if you can do it first that'd be great. Be sure to check for tags before putting the rules on the other wiki. Thanks!

So, I got an e-mail about the board being incorrect. I took a look at a good screenshot of the board sent to me, and it looks like my board is correcion demenionaly. (The board is the rights size and the lines are in the right place.) THe only thing I can think of that's wrong is the circular edges, which is hard to actually get right. I'm uploading a kind of templete in the files section, if someone could work out the circular board to work right, i'd be appreciated. Thanks!

So my bro got the circlular edges to work. I reuploaded the file and put the image up on the main page.

In the clarification of movement, it states you can end a move before the maximum distance is reached. Would the White Lily and Chrysanthomum be able to move 1 then change direction or must it move 2 before it turns? This really only matters when another piece is blocking it from moving the 2 spaces first.

I'd also like to note that I'm trying to program version of the game. Hopefully I'll have a working copy very soon.

Regarding the Rock: if it is adjacent to 2 disharmonious flowers does it take on the properties of both? For example would a rock with a Jade and a Rhodo on 2 sides of it create 2 disharmonies, 1 with each of the existing flowers, but create a harmony with any other flower on the proper line.

I didn't think of that...One solution could be to have the rock take on the properties of only the last flower tile to be moved adjacent to it. As for the Lily and Chrysanthemum, I think it would be okay for the tile to move only one space before it turns if the player wants to.

One problem I have with that is remembering what the last tile was. In my opinion, a game should have "visual memory", meaning there's no memeory required. As long as there's no sort of runaway strategy of having it take on the quallities of the ajacent tiles, then that sounds alright to me.

uum where is the fourth condition for a victory? its says 4 but there are only three

Huh, weird. Good catch. I changed it to "three", though of course more can be added.

I'm not sure I understand the playing of pieces. What is meant by "red points" and "white points"? Intersections surrounded by that color? If so, then this contradicts the show since the white jade tiles are played on red points.

I'm still wondering if the relations for the pieces is too complex.

I printed peices and tried the game by myself and here is my impression.

* I do not like the complexity of both unique movement rules and harmonies for each piece that needs to be memorized. Chess isn't nearly this complex on the surface. I'm having a hard time devising a strategy because of this. The game should be fairly easy to pick up. Chess and Go are timeless games that aare simple on the surface, and I think Pai sho would follow a ancient timeless style of game. I believe pieces like the white dragon and white Jade should have only 1 ability. (agility which gives power, like the chess queen.) But then again, I'm not too crazy about capturing in this game except for maybe some rare occasions. (A rare occurance causing some hard to resolvce situation.)

* I do not like how first player to play white jade stops others. I think more ideal is 1 back from center, making it more fair for the player who goes second.

* What is the gameplay justification of having peices start at seperate corners? Couldn't it be just as easily that peices are played anywhere (as in go)?

* Is there a place in the show where a player moves a stationary piece on the board? (Besides cheating) If so, does it match these written rules?

* Tracking of who "owns" a dragon could be too annoying to keep track of. I recomend removing this.

* I think we should step back and think: What is this piece's role in the game? Is it intended for scoring, blocking, capturing etc.?

* I trimmed down the dragon to a more simple role. (Also only move in straight line since I think the piece was over powered otherwise.) I got rid of the keeping track of ownership thing as I feel it was too complex. (I left the white jade one since I'm not sure exactly what to do with that piece.)

* Obviously the old version is still there, and what I say is just an input at equal level with everyone else's. Feel free to change what I wrote, or even revert though I would like to get a consensus on a fun game, and personaly I think this game needs a little more work to be not too complex (surface complexity that is.) and fun.

Aren't the pieces placed in the squares, not the intersections?

If you look at the photos, most nations play on the intersections. It seems the air monks play a variation that plsy in the squares.

Orichal: Please stop linking to outside competing sites. I sent you an e-mail.

That site you linked to is taking content from this site and claiming a copyright they have no right to (it is intended ot be open for everyone under creative commons). I've been trying to contact the owner, but there is no e-mail and I have to wait to be approved for the forums. If you could have the owner of the site contact me, it'd be appreciated.

Update: I contacted the owner of the site, and he has responded back and I'm in the process of a resolution.

I have an idea about renaming Pai Sho tiles. I am not from Japan culture so I have no feel about which flower is harmonious or not with which flower. I can memorize it however this thing is intimidating to the new comers I tried to recruit to the game. How about changing flower names to colors. Everyone who took a basic painting class knows there are elemental colors and in between.(color triangle) I will draw them down

blue

purple green

red orange yellow

if you mix colors on corner with another one on corner, you get the inbetween color (red+blue --> purple)
Colors which are against each other are inharmonious
(blue XXX orange)
(purple XXX yellow)
(red XXX green)

For harmony
if it is a main color, it is harmonious with intermediate colors it contributes
if it is a intermediate color, it is harmonious with its constituent main colors

red -----purple
red -----orange
blue----purple
blue----green
yellow---orange
yellow --- green


For red and white flowers seperation, we can choose sth like hot(red, yellow, orange) or cold(blue, purple, green) colors

Any comments?

wiki messed color format. I am uploading picture to printstuff page

Hmm. Interesting idea. It would make it much simpler, though specific flowers are named in the show, so I'd imagine they wold be used in the game. Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. A system of harmony based on the flower's colors could certainly work and I'd like to see it explored more.

So it looks like both ehow and wikihow are using the pai sho rules. Unfortunately they didn't bother to give links back here (I added them in for both), but I'm hoping it will ultimately help to get more people to know about our site.

Resolution has been made with the other site, which now gives proper credit here and releases it under the creative commons license. If someone wants to put a link in on the links page there, i'm fine with that. (it's at www.freewebs.com/pai-sho)

Thanks Mace, sorry about all of the problems over the past week. Glad that all of the problems were worked out.

I'm not so sure about the 3 White Lotus tiles, because in the episode 'The Waterbending Scroll' (book 1, chapter 9) Iroh complains about losing his White Lotus tile. And he talks about it as if it is the only one.

In regards to the White Lotus piece I think there are different rules for how to play it than what you've shown. In the episode The Desert (Book 2, Chapter 11), Iroh plays the White Lotus as his first move and he places it in the middle of the board. This means that there is no waiting limit before playing a special (or at least the White Lotus) and that either a) the middle of the board can be considered your own territory or b) the white lotus can be placed anywhere on the board or anywhere along the cardinal axes.

Lastly, it appears that the board is placed so that the player sits between two red tips as shown in this image at this location:

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/File:Order_WL.png