I'm thinking of starting from scratch since my ideas don't look that great to me anymore.

If you want to start over, i'd be glad to help you build a new site :).

I was thinking of using this wiki still, since it's easy to use and anyone can just edit ideas. Wikis are great for colaberation projects like this.

One thing I'm thinking is maybe having 8 different kinds of stones is too much. Maybe the game is played with just 2 (one type for each player) like go. Not sure. I've been distracted by other stuff lateley. feel free to post any thougths you have here. Looks like right now it's just us two.

Oh, and I added a chat room ->
:)

Oh wait,the show has more than 1 kind. I wasn't thinking about that, still i'd like to take this "back to basics."

I still believe we should contact nickelodeon and ask them to release proper rules instead of improvising our own or something...

Well i added some rules and redesigned some the page :)

Unity: And if they don't want to put the work in to that, what harm is there in makiing a fan game? If Nick/Viacom really wants us to not make the game, then I'll gladly shut this down but in the meantime I don't see any harm on working on a project to show our love of Avatar.

And those docs were my little bro's. Sorry about that, I was meaning to delete them after I printed them for him.

I made a spanish traduction of this page :). I don't think there'll be big problem about doing that. If any of you know a little of spanish, can help me to do the page :) Thank You.

The page is http://paishoes.pbwiki.com (The link is on the side bar :)

I've had an offer to set up with a wiki-pedia style wikim whi8ch sounds good to me. The person is even willing to donate a domain name!

By the way, I sent an e-mail to nick, asking the writers of avatar if they have any rules/advice. I'm not really expecting an answer back, since most likely they are pretty busy. (Now I'm kicking myself for not asking them in person at comicon! )

Si. No problemo.
My Spanish is terrible though so I'm afriad I can't offer any help. :P

Umm, I just changed all of the rules because the old ones were broken. If you don't like the new ones, feel free to change them back.

No problem. These rules look really good. The rules were really rough before. I like the anallogies of the four nations/elements.

Some programs (Specificly microsoft Word and Frontpage) add wonky tags that make things over stuffed and cause errors. Unfortunitly, when I tried getting rid of the tags it messed up the error. i'm in the process of fixing, but if you can do it first that'd be great. Be sure to check for tags before putting the rules on the other wiki. Thanks!

So, I got an e-mail about the board being incorrect. I took a look at a good screenshot of the board sent to me, and it looks like my board is correcion demenionaly. (The board is the rights size and the lines are in the right place.) THe only thing I can think of that's wrong is the circular edges, which is hard to actually get right. I'm uploading a kind of templete in the files section, if someone could work out the circular board to work right, i'd be appreciated. Thanks!

So my bro got the circlular edges to work. I reuploaded the file and put the image up on the main page.

In the clarification of movement, it states you can end a move before the maximum distance is reached. Would the White Lily and Chrysanthomum be able to move 1 then change direction or must it move 2 before it turns? This really only matters when another piece is blocking it from moving the 2 spaces first.

I'd also like to note that I'm trying to program version of the game. Hopefully I'll have a working copy very soon.

Regarding the Rock: if it is adjacent to 2 disharmonious flowers does it take on the properties of both? For example would a rock with a Jade and a Rhodo on 2 sides of it create 2 disharmonies, 1 with each of the existing flowers, but create a harmony with any other flower on the proper line.

I didn't think of that...One solution could be to have the rock take on the properties of only the last flower tile to be moved adjacent to it. As for the Lily and Chrysanthemum, I think it would be okay for the tile to move only one space before it turns if the player wants to.

One problem I have with that is remembering what the last tile was. In my opinion, a game should have "visual memory", meaning there's no memeory required. As long as there's no sort of runaway strategy of having it take on the quallities of the ajacent tiles, then that sounds alright to me.

uum where is the fourth condition for a victory? its says 4 but there are only three

Huh, weird. Good catch. I changed it to "three", though of course more can be added.

I'm not sure I understand the playing of pieces. What is meant by "red points" and "white points"? Intersections surrounded by that color? If so, then this contradicts the show since the white jade tiles are played on red points.

I'm still wondering if the relations for the pieces is too complex.

I printed peices and tried the game by myself and here is my impression.

* I do not like the complexity of both unique movement rules and harmonies for each piece that needs to be memorized. Chess isn't nearly this complex on the surface. I'm having a hard time devising a strategy because of this. The game should be fairly easy to pick up. Chess and Go are timeless games that aare simple on the surface, and I think Pai sho would follow a ancient timeless style of game. I believe pieces like the white dragon and white Jade should have only 1 ability. (agility which gives power, like the chess queen.) But then again, I'm not too crazy about capturing in this game except for maybe some rare occasions. (A rare occurance causing some hard to resolvce situation.)

* I do not like how first player to play white jade stops others. I think more ideal is 1 back from center, making it more fair for the player who goes second.

* What is the gameplay justification of having peices start at seperate corners? Couldn't it be just as easily that peices are played anywhere (as in go)?

* Is there a place in the show where a player moves a stationary piece on the board? (Besides cheating) If so, does it match these written rules?

* Tracking of who "owns" a dragon could be too annoying to keep track of. I recomend removing this.

* I think we should step back and think: What is this piece's role in the game? Is it intended for scoring, blocking, capturing etc.?

* I trimmed down the dragon to a more simple role. (Also only move in straight line since I think the piece was over powered otherwise.) I got rid of the keeping track of ownership thing as I feel it was too complex. (I left the white jade one since I'm not sure exactly what to do with that piece.)

* Obviously the old version is still there, and what I say is just an input at equal level with everyone else's. Feel free to change what I wrote, or even revert though I would like to get a consensus on a fun game, and personaly I think this game needs a little more work to be not too complex (surface complexity that is.) and fun.

Aren't the pieces placed in the squares, not the intersections?

If you look at the photos, most nations play on the intersections. It seems the air monks play a variation that plsy in the squares.

Orichal: Please stop linking to outside competing sites. I sent you an e-mail.

That site you linked to is taking content from this site and claiming a copyright they have no right to (it is intended ot be open for everyone under creative commons). I've been trying to contact the owner, but there is no e-mail and I have to wait to be approved for the forums. If you could have the owner of the site contact me, it'd be appreciated.

Update: I contacted the owner of the site, and he has responded back and I'm in the process of a resolution.

I have an idea about renaming Pai Sho tiles. I am not from Japan culture so I have no feel about which flower is harmonious or not with which flower. I can memorize it however this thing is intimidating to the new comers I tried to recruit to the game. How about changing flower names to colors. Everyone who took a basic painting class knows there are elemental colors and in between.(color triangle) I will draw them down

blue

purple green

red orange yellow

if you mix colors on corner with another one on corner, you get the inbetween color (red+blue --> purple)
Colors which are against each other are inharmonious
(blue XXX orange)
(purple XXX yellow)
(red XXX green)

For harmony
if it is a main color, it is harmonious with intermediate colors it contributes
if it is a intermediate color, it is harmonious with its constituent main colors

red -----purple
red -----orange
blue----purple
blue----green
yellow---orange
yellow --- green


For red and white flowers seperation, we can choose sth like hot(red, yellow, orange) or cold(blue, purple, green) colors

Any comments?

wiki messed color format. I am uploading picture to printstuff page

Hmm. Interesting idea. It would make it much simpler, though specific flowers are named in the show, so I'd imagine they wold be used in the game. Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. A system of harmony based on the flower's colors could certainly work and I'd like to see it explored more.

So it looks like both ehow and wikihow are using the pai sho rules. Unfortunately they didn't bother to give links back here (I added them in for both), but I'm hoping it will ultimately help to get more people to know about our site.

Resolution has been made with the other site, which now gives proper credit here and releases it under the creative commons license. If someone wants to put a link in on the links page there, i'm fine with that. (it's at www.freewebs.com/pai-sho)

Thanks Mace, sorry about all of the problems over the past week. Glad that all of the problems were worked out.

I'm not so sure about the 3 White Lotus tiles, because in the episode 'The Waterbending Scroll' (book 1, chapter 9) Iroh complains about losing his White Lotus tile. And he talks about it as if it is the only one.

In regards to the White Lotus piece I think there are different rules for how to play it than what you've shown. In the episode The Desert (Book 2, Chapter 11), Iroh plays the White Lotus as his first move and he places it in the middle of the board. This means that there is no waiting limit before playing a special (or at least the White Lotus) and that either a) the middle of the board can be considered your own territory or b) the white lotus can be placed anywhere on the board or anywhere along the cardinal axes.

Lastly, it appears that the board is placed so that the player sits between two red tips as shown in this image at this location:

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/File:Order_WL.png

A couple of things...
(1) I agree with Green that there must be only one white lotus piece, as shown by the script from the "water bending scroll"
http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/transcripts.php?ep=109
(2) Also, if you read the script it would also indicate that the advantage of the white lotus piece must be minimul unless doing the specific technique Iroh employs...A technique which I think we can also assume is a winning one and not just a means of finding white lotus members.
(3) I also agree with Kevin that in the episode "the desert" the board is positioned differently than the rules here would suggest, But i would also like to point out that if you count the number of tiles in the picture and the number of tiles listed in the rules posted here, there are more tiles in the screenshot than alloted for in the rules.
(4) A screenshot from "The Waterbending Scroll" looks like it shows 3 players, though it could be only two with a spectator.
If I think of any other problems, I'll add them...otherwise the rules are very interesting, I'm glad this site is here.

Now I haven't paid very close attention to the scenes in the series where Pai Sho is shown, however with Uncle Iroh's interest in replacing his lost White Lotus piece, it suggests to me something akin to a CCG where each player has a set of tiles that they have chosen and selected for a particular strategy to employ. I also don't know much about oriental flower arranging, but I like the versatility and personality that this idea would add to the game. I also envisioned it being something similar to that old game Pogs where the winner of a match would win one or more of his opponents tiles. I also don't like the movement of the pieces - it makes it more shuffleboard than flower arranging.

I also agree with what Mace said earlier about these rules here being too complex. Of course CCG rules are even worse, but I think a simple pattern could be devised that would make the whole thing easier. IE the number of points on the tile (the number of petals on the flower?) represent the number of connections or harmonies that can be created with that tile. Color could also be a factor - such as using color theory (complimentary colors) to arrange harmonies. I also think that there should be a neutral ending - where both players succeed in harmonizing their tiles with their opponents ( I think it's the Serpent's Pass episode where Iroh does this in the desert bar) - this could be the strategy to which the White Lotus is key.

Anywho, these are my thoughts. Just thought I'd throw them out there to you guys instead of trying to make up my own competing interpretation of the game.

Oh! I forgot, I also think that the tiles should be related to the elements. As big of a role as the elements play in the game, certain tiles should fall into a category with an element. Whether this is used to create harmonies or disharmonies is I guess up to the strategy of the player.

The episode you're thinking of is The Desert, Puf. I agree with your ideas, especially about a CCG aspect of the game. When Iroh loses his Lotus tile, why did he think a store would sell him just the one? If you lose a pawn in a chess set, or any other piece, your chances of going into a store that will sell you just the one piece are slim, even if every chess set was the same size they probably wouldnt want to sell an incomplete set because a set consists of a very specific grouping of pieces; if they sold you a pawn their set would be incomplete. With a CCG there could be a number of tiles one must have, for example, 50, and as long as they are legal pieces and you dont have too many of one piece, you would have a complete set. That would explain how Iroh is able to buy just the one piece, because "decks" (tile sets) are customizable, but it would also explain the quote at the end of the desert episode, "Some unlucky soul has an incomplete Pai Sho set." He would be referring to the set as incomplete because there is a certain number required to be complete, but the specific piece is not necessary to all pai sho sets.

I also agree that in such a game the pieces would have to be self explanatory in some way because people wouldnt necessarily have to know how to use every piece if it wasnt in their set. By showing the rules visually on the piece, necessary knowledge before playing would be minimized to a set of rules governing how pieces work in general, with each piece having their rules on them in visual code. I like the idea of the petals, color, or even shape of the flowers governing that code. It would explain why the lotus tile could be underestimated; the combination of its color, shape, and number of petals could make it seem not so important based on the rules, so other people chose flashier flowers with "better moves" for their sets.

Hmm. There are some great ideas here. I'll just sum them up and comment here and there ^_^
1) The colour idea for harmonies is brilliant! The flowers and such images would remain the same, but the colours would change. Either the flowers could be coloured, or their backgrounds. It would certainly make things much easier to remember.
2) The series makes two referrances to the White Lotus tile. In one, Iroh loses his and needs to replace it, suggesting he only has one. In another episode someone says something to the effect of: "A White Lotus tile. Some poor soul has an incomplete pai sho set", again suggesting there is a single White Lotus tile.
3) CCG might work. There should not be a huge variety of tiles, but enough that people can customize their strategy. Of course, if CCG would prove too confusing, the sets should be the same, like Chess, but perhaps it would work.

A few things are unclear to me. You say the tiles are placed on intersections, yet many of the shots of the game show tiles in the squares. Some even show them in the squares and on the lines. I do not know which is correct, however it looks like we have to decide, since there are no clear rules. We must interpret what we can from the show and fill in the blanks ourselves. I would suggest landing on intersections, otherwise movement would be limited.

I'm going to make up a set for myself and give it a try. I will return with my thoughts and comments on the rules so far.

In the show it seems it varies by episodes, and though its not really in the show enough to extrapolate a pattern, I noticed something about the board and where the pieces go. In the first episode with Pai Sho, Iroh is playing with Fire Nation, and the board is rotated with the two opposite red points directed towards players, but with the pieces in squares. The next episode Pai Sho is in is "the Storm", in which two airbenders (Aang and Gyatso) play with the board rotated so that the players sit between points, but the pieces are still on squares. The next time you see pai sho it is with Iroh playing an Earth nation man (the Desert) and the board is rotated in the manner of the Air benders, but they put the pieces on the lines. That is the only instance of it on the lines as far as I know, but it is also the most significant episode with Pai Sho in it. My point is I concluded that the Fire Nation play with the pieces in the squares with the board in the rotation found on this page. The Air and Earth have the board rotated the other way, but Earth plays in the squares. Water might have the board rotated like Fire but on the lines like Earth.
An alternate scenario is that the makers of the show just didnt think about it a whole lot until it was important in "The Desert". The "white lotus gambit" requires the lotus tile in the middle, which is only possible if it is on a line, and thats when they changed it to on the lines. That doesnt explain why the board is rotated differently in the first episode it is in than in any other episode. A final note about that--I found that there were 260 usable squares and 249 usable intersections, so (if i'm right about the usable spaces) the board is effectively smaller if you play it on the intersections.
...(it wouldn't let me submit everything)...

...(continued)...
I dont know that I agree that there cant be a large variety of pieces in the CCG concept of the game, because the idea is that each piece has to be self explanatory, and you need a lot of pieces for customization. As long as there are simple rules to it that govern what kinds of pieces there can exist and how they work, I dont see why there couldnt be a bunch. For example, if there is a formula to it, you wouldn't have to recognize a white lily to know how the piece moves (6 petals and white, that means it moves like this...) Just my thoughts

Thats a good idea about the pieces mechanized...

I do think it would be more enojoyable if players could choose their pieces, and just need to have a set number of tiles per game. Let me get this strait, red flowers and can only go on red spots and white on white?

Yay! I just made my Pai sho baord.. I made it twice the size recommended because I wanted it to better match the ones on the tv show.

I've been working on a version of Pai Sho myself, and I thought I'd share some insight. I personally assume that there are two separate variations presented in the show; the most noticeable difference is whether the pieces are played on spaces or intersections. Every time they show the "Space" variation, they also show pieces being moved. My conclusion is that "Space" Pai-Sho has moving pieces, while "Line" Pai-Sho does not. My version of the game uses more different pieces, but fewer pieces overall. (The Desert shows the White Lotus Gambit with 57 pieces on the board, and no visible extras. By your rules that leaves 50-or-so pieces missing [Read: in Iroh's sleeves]) I took some inspiration from Hanafuda in adding additional flowers. I used a modified version of your concept of Harmonies. Harmonies in mine are formed through similarities between pieces: in Colour (Red/White), Light (Day/Night; there are only two copies of each piece: one Day, one Night. Still not satisfied with this), and Season (Winter/Spring/Summer/Fall; taken partially from the months on Hanafuda cards. I'm not a horticulturist, though, so it's mostly arbitrary.) Therefore, pieces can be in disharmony, or harmony worth 1, 2, or 3 points...

(...Continued) Each player has 28 pieces, like so:
Flowers (Day and Night versions of each)
-Red
=Rhododendron (Winter, 3 points)
=Iris (Spring, 1 point)
=Cherry Blossom (Spring, 2 points)
=Peony (Summer, 1 point)
=Chrysanthemum (Summer, 2 points)
=Maple (Fall, 3 points)
-White
=Pine (Winter, 1 point)
=Jasmine (Winter, 2 points)
=Wisteria (Spring, 3 points)
=Lily (Summer, 3 points)
=Clover (Autumn, 1 point)
=Willow (Autumn, 2 points)
Other Pieces (1 each)
-Wheel (Autumn Day or Summer Night)
-Cup (Spring Day or Winter Night)
-Spade (No Harmonies)
-Twig (Forms 1-point Harmony with anything)
-White Jade/White Lotus (Reverse sides of one piece)

Like yours, Red flowers can only be placed touching Red (excluding ports, which I call "Brown" to avoid that), and White on White. White Jade can be on Red or White, and the other pieces ("Tools"?), only touching Yellow...

Play starts by playing a flower in the board's center; this is the Centerpiece. For Harmonies to be worth points they must link to the Centerpiece. Players take turns playing one piece. If the Harmony produced is 10 or more, (these numbers may need adjustment) that player wins the game.
Harmony grows from the Centerpiece. Each piece can create Harmony with 1 other piece. (Besides its link to the Centerpiece.) The strongest Harmony a piece can produce is always preferred. When two Harmonies are equally strong, the closer one is preferred. Adjacent pieces never form Harmonies with each other, and even disrupt each other's other Harmonies. In order for either piece to form a Harmony, that Harmony must overcome the Disharmony between those pieces. Two adjacent pieces with no similarities cannot form Harmonies with other pieces. (The Spade has no similarities with any piece; in addition, pieces adjacent to the Spade cause no Disharmony.) Two pieces with 1 similarity can only form 3-point Harmonies with other pieces. With 2 similarities only 2- or 3-point Harmonies can be formed. Adjacent pieces with 3 similarities and nonflower pieces cause no disharmony.
Additionally, pieces never produce Harmony with an identical flower.
White Jade - The White Jade piece creates a 2-point Harmony with each other piece (excluding the Centerpiece). Like the Centerpiece, it is unaffected by disharmony from other pieces, though it affects them normally (White Jade has no similarities with any piece). Only one White Jade can be on the board at one time; the second White Jade removes the first, and it cannot be played again this game.
White Lotus - The White Jade piece cannot be played as the centerpiece; instead, the White Lotus is played. The White Lotus forms Harmony with each piece equal to its point value. In addition, when determining Harmony preference, farther Harmonies are preferred to closer ones. White Jade tiles cannot be played while the White Lotus is in play.

Here are a few of my thoughts. number one: after reading the rules and seeing the pieces discribed i must agree with most of the commenters that there coudl only be one White Lotus Tile. However, that is not to say that each player should be limited to one lotus tile. Next, the game of Pai Sho is considered, in the world of Avatar, to be an ancient game, with each piece having a meaning to its owner. I don't like the idea of there being a set grouping of tiles. making the game too closely related to Chess would make people just decide to play chess instead because it is a game they know. I like the idea of there being many types of tiles. and there may be a solution to some of the problems if we look at the board and the pieces together. one of the problems was about whether to put the tiles on the squares or on the lines. i say, why not both, giving some tiles the ability or restriction to travel the lines and allowing them to be able to circumvent another tile in an effort to block or create harmonies. As far as the direction of the board when playing, i don't think that it would be too important as long as the players start on opposit sides from one another. however, to satisfy and simplify, since there are four "corners" to the board, i believe it would be easier to simply have each player (up to four) start on a corner.

My best argument against collectible/selectable tiles is that, in The Desert, a set of tiles are present on Iroh's side before he approaches the table. It could be that it was just a basic starter set (or, perhaps, a special White Lotus set), but I think it would be cumbersome to carry a whole tile set around with you... (Though probably no more so than a teapot, and Iroh seems to manage with that...)

Having receintly seen the episode "the desert," i am inclined to agree with you, Red Kutai, on the fact that tiles are presented at the table when iroh meets with a fellow Lotus. I believe that there is cause for a standard set of tiles that Pai Sho is played with, especially given the comment by the bounty hunter in the Desert about the unlucky soul having an incomplete Pai Sho set. I have also seen the instances of how the tiles in a couple of earlier episodes were placed within the squares while in "the Desert," they were placed on the intersecting lines. I believe I have a solution to this, and i have had to re-think a few things along the way. I believe that the game is played within the squares, while members of the White Lotus place their tiles on the intersecting lines only as a way of communication between members. I also, through some very intense brain storming, have come up with an idea for game play and tile movement identification that is very easy. I will say more when i have it all written down and can easily answer questions should anyone have any. and when i post it, i would be glad to hear from anyone their input as to what is good or bad about my ideas.

One sneaking suspicion I've had lately is that "Pai Sho" is not the name of a game at all, but rather the name of the tiles that various games are played with. Thus, "playing Pai Sho" would be analogous to "playing cards"; not referring to any particular game, though in certain groups (or, perhaps entire nations) there may be a customary game. For instance, where I come from "cards" refers almost exclusively to Poker.

Also, considering how discrete the White Lotus Society tends to be, I find it strange to think that their method of communication would be a universally invalid way to play Pai Sho. It seems more likely to me that, as is shown in The Desert, they use one unique game position to communicate (I also like to think that that position leads to a draw), and that they play a rare or archaic version of the game. This leads me to wonder, though, whether the Society formed as a group of people who played Pai Sho a certain way, or whether the game created as a way for the Society to communicate. I wouldn't be surprised either way...

I think for the white lotus tile, it should be able to play on the first turn, showed by Iroh, in season 2, episode 11, "The Desert". I'm trying to work out the lotus pattern myself, and it would have to contradict this rule.

But it wasn't the white lotus tile as shown at the end of "the Waterbending scroll".

I think that Red Kutai is right as there seems to be at least three different types of game played in Avatar with the same board and pieces, a chess like game which is the most common, a gambling game seen in "the Blue Spirit", and the version which has been called Harmony version seen in "the Desert".

So this is probably just me but the rules are a bit complex. Do any of you play this? And if you do could you try and record or give a more simplified tutorial on how this is played? It's all just a bit much to remember, I think maybe if I can see it visually I can get a better idea of how it's done.

I kind of have an idea for a simpler game. I like this way, but I had an idea that you could play, very similar, with the harmonies, but whoever got all their pieces into harmonies faster won. I suppose you could throw in capturing, like, if you capture a piece of the other player's it'd go back in their pile, idk. Just an idea, though I don't like to deviate from the other way. I'm working on making a pai sho board- it wil be a very long task so I am looking forward to when it's finished. But, it's the travel that makes it fun afterward I guess.

Yeah I found this version a bit confusing so I've been working on changing bits of it to try and make it more friendly for me and whoever else I'm playing with. I've got a total of 20 flora now, all the ones I added were in Avatar i.e. Panda Lily, Leechi Nuts, moon flower etc. And I've designated them to certain nations instead of harmonizing solely by flowers, it's just easier to remember earth kingdom goes together instead of the various flower names (for me anyway). It's a work-in-progress at the moment, but I also cut it down to 32 tiles per person, since that's the exact number used by Iroh in the desert episode. (33 if you include White Lotus as a center piece)

hm. I never though of adding any. I've taken the basic and kind of altered them a tiny bit for me to change. I'm starting to memorize the flower harmonies, and I'm looking forward to playing it. (Not looking forward to making 120 tiles, because if you add up the amount of tiles for each set, it's 60, not 54

ignore the 60 thingy, I must've had a brain fart while adding it up. :)

Hi Carnificus, I like the idea of using flora from Avatar. What are the twenty? Plus I only counted fifty eight tiles on the board in the desert game.

I believe The Desert shows 57 pieces. The Lotus shape has 4-way symmetry, so (adding 1 for the White Lotus in the center) the only possibilities are 53, 57, or 61. Having counted before, I remember there being 57.

Fifty eight was including the tile in the centre
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/File:Order_WL.png

Excluding the center piece, that leaves 57; 57 is not divisible by 4, so a shape with 4-way symmetry can't be composed of 57 pieces.

Your right, the shape on the picture is wrong , I hadn't noticed it before.

Yeah you're right I either counted wrong or it's not symmetrical, I was thinking each player had 32, obviously not. But I kept in the flora you already had and added on those. the ones I added are as follows: Leechi Nuts, Bacui Berries, Banyan-Grove Tree, Cactus, camellia sinensis, Ginger root, Macahoni Berries, Moonflower, Panda lily, Plum Blossom, Sandalwood, White Jade, Fire lily, Ginseng. Add that with your 6 and you've got 20.
side-note: I'm having some trouble deciding how exactly to start the game. I wasn't clear on how exactly this one starts off and I've yet to figure out how I want to start my own version. I'd like to hear some ideas on different ways to start it up if anyone has any.

It is not symmetrical! There is an extra piece on the upper right-hand side of the board. Maybe the opponent added his lotus tile onto the board as well. I am not sure, but it would make a point as to each player having a lotus piece. and to each player having an even number of pieces.

Hmm. I kinda doubt that piece is supposed to be there; the artist most likely added it to make the number of pieces even. It hardly seems to fit...

Also, apparently a user named Term Paper has been editing spam into our FrontPage here; if anyone sees him at it again, please revert to the proper revision...

For Reference for other Rules and placing you may want to research the game "Go" (碁), Another two player game involving control of Territory across the game board.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28game%29

Hey, teddy; I didn't delete your ideas, I simply moved them to their own page. (The Elemental Pai Sho page, click Variations in the SideBar.) I'm trying to keep the front page clean of "ideas", rather using this page for facts; things that've been mentioned explicitly in the show. Anyone is free to make new pages for Variations, ideas, etc. so always feel free to do so. Thanks for your cooperation, and sorry if I worried you...

Hi
After watching all the avatar episodes I became very interested in the game of pai sho but found it confusing to learn from reading texts. I would like to know if anyone would be interested in making an instructional video in how to play Pai Sho so that I can properly learn it and teach my friends and family how to play this interesting game. Thanks in advance. if anyone does take this on please email me with a link to the video at alexcalviera@gmail.com. Thanks!

Hello, alex; the confusion complaint seems to be pretty common with the Wiki Pai Sho rules. Unfortunately, we don't know the precise rules of the game, as they were never fully - or even briefly - described in the show. The rules you see set before you are a group effort to devise a working set of rules, using only the scant information we have gleaned from the show. As such, we are constantly modifying the rules slightly to obtain the most playable version of the game; including, but not limited to, making the rules easier to understand. When - or rather, if - we ever come to a final conclusion as to the true nature of the game's rules, I'm sure there will be people willing to make tutorials. Until then, though, your assistance would be appreciated to help us make the game as understandable and functionable as possible. It may, in fact, be quite a while before anyone comes to any definite conclusions on it, but the more help we get, the more we can hope to cut that wait time...

Took an interest in finding out more about this game after re-watching the avatar series. After digging through what information you already have and what links you have provided i am even more interested in the game. I have an idea for the game that you may or may not want to use and it is as follows. As far as i can tell harmonies and disharmonies between tiles basically govern how you may move tiles and should be the "First level of Harmony". In keeping with the spirit of avatar the "Second level of Harmony" would be dictated by element. Assign an element to specific tiles (how you would subgrup them i haven't concluded) and when played within their element on the board they gain additional benefits. This rule does not replace the rule in which harmonies gain additional points when played within their coulor. In short if a harmony is played that aligns with both element and coulor it either (a) grants additional points or (b) becomes harder to de-haromonize. This duality could also be applied to the white lotus versus the white dragon stratagies (assign one effect to the white lotus stratagy and the other to the white dragon stratagy). In order for this idea to be worth anything you would also have to assign one element to each section of the board, earth accross from air and fire accross from water to reflect the opossing forces. From looking at the rules this would create a playing field in which it is beneficiary to pay attention to all four sections or "Elements" of the board rather than just the two sections (red and white)

first, a correction on my horrible miss spell of color. probably plenty of other spelling mistakes in my previous post but coulor was just to bad to leave alone lol. So i took the time to write up a set of rules and im about half way through making my board. If i can figer out how to add a new page ill post my variation there. If not expect it in the next post. Oh and the varation that i came up with is largely based on Kutai's version. The primary differance is that i removed the night and day harmony combonation and i added abilities for each tile (but removed the special tiles). I have yet to decide whether or not i wish to add the special tiles into the game, simply feels out of place to me. I vered away from my Elements idea in favor of the seasons, felt more fitting.

There is a link between the elements and the seasons. So there the possibility of incorporating the elements in to the game.

"The reincarnations of the Avatar are controlled by the Avatar Cycle of the elements: Water, Earth, Fire, Air. The cycle is based of the passage of the four seasons (water is winter, earth is spring, fire is summer and air is autumn)." taken from
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_cycle#Avatar_Cycle

Yi Chen is right, and that was my main reasoning for including the Seasons in the first place. Also, about the Special Tiles: The White Lotus Tile and the Wheel Tile have both been shown in canon, so I suggest you think twice before removing them. (if youre concerned about accuracy; I'm sure it'll be a fun game either way...) Finally, at the top-right-hand corner of this page, there is a "Create a Page" button. You're welcomed to make a page about your variation as soon as you'd like...

Heh, heh; also, you uploaded a pair of files in Microsoft Works format. If those are simply for your own reference, that's fine, but I know I personally do not have Microsoft Works. If they're intended to be read by others, please upload them in a more universal format. (Such as ".rtf" or ".txt".) But, like I said, if they're just for you, no problem...

First, how many of these tiles do we get? (ie. how many of each of the red flower tiles, how many white lotus, boats, knotweed, etc.)

Second, how many points are each harmony and why is 100 points the best way? Are there any other ways to gain points?

Third, if people help put together this game, I can make it into a flash game as that is what I like to do. :D

Sorry for the post and then failing to post my rules for the game, i was expecting to be able to get my bord put together alot faster and test my meathods. I am not very worried about accuracy to the tv show since i doubt the creaters were thinking about playability in the first place, however, depending on how the game play gos i may want to add it anyways. I would like to create a version that keeps things interesting without creating chaos lol. As i said though i need to test my rules before posting them officialy. I appologize for the files in the database that i have already, they were my first attempt to post my version and I'll look into getting them out imidiantly, not that great with compys though so if i fail feel free to remove them.

yeeeah so tried to delete it. Found the page and the file but the delete was greyed out. Hope im not just being realy retarded. Sorry for the trouble and thanks for your feedback!

Hey, no worries; you can't delete anything (nor can I, for that matter) without having Editor status. Since I've no idea who the "owner" of this space is, I don't know of any way to actually obtain Editor status. Regardless, it's not really necessary that you delete them; you could always simply submit the universal-format versions alongside...

I think knowing what Pai Sho means will help develop game play better. I do not speak Chinese, so if it is Chinese, my translation is wrong. If it is in fact Japanese, it means "[the] Military officer['s] [mahjong] tiles", of, more loosely, "The General's Tiles". In my mind, this should make it a much more militaristic game. Although it is true that military officers often also were either scholars or artists. If that is the writer's influence, then it would be more than harmony. As the White Lotus Gambit seems to suggest (and yes, I realize it is the secret password, just hear me out) that visual appeal of the positions would also play a factor. But I am simply presenting these facts and insights to you who makes these rules and all its contributors, that yyou may form a more accurate idea.

I appreciate your attempt to help explain the game, and that name seems like a surprisingly fitting one (given its popularity with military officers such as Iroh and Jeong Jeong), especially consdering that most names in the show have a Chinese rather than Japanese, origin. But, I don't think that (even if that is the meaning of the name) it should be more militaristic. That type of name seems like it would come into use via popularity with Military Officers; and any type of strategy game could likely fit that bill.

As for the idea of aesthetics playing a role, that makes sense in most interpretations, as we currently believe the game is based around Ikebana - flower arranging. This has manifested at different times in this Wiki as everything from particular "arrangements" (shapes) that harmonious flowers should make, harmony based on colour and distance, to probably more subjective ideas of aesthetics. I personally believe that the White Lotus Gambit is a perfectly legal method of playing Pai Sho, and that it also serves as a "password" between White Lotus Society members; if it were not a viable play, then it would not be nearly as discrete as one would expect (given the line "Not many still cling to the ancient ways," I generally assume that the White Lotus Gambit is simply an archaic strategy that isn't much used anymore).

By the way, we're all simply using the information we have at hand to form ideas, and your ideas are as worthwhile as anyone's. What I meant to say is, feel free to edit any page on this Wiki any time you have an idea. That's what it's here for...

the idea of adding elements to the game is good but it is harder than it sounds. each element has "harmonies" with others, even its opposite. for example both fire and water employ heat control, air and earth are defensive, although in different ways. fire and earth emphasis strength and short solid strikes. air and water are both fuse flowing forms. there are obviously others that i don't realize yet but those would be hard to incorporate.

Also what Iroh knows in "bitter work" about the other nations was probably learnt in the order of the white lotus. any strategies and rules should use the the the properties of the nations and bending arts in the so to better describe the world that the game draws from

Well, while each element should "harmonise" with the other 3, having two opposites alone does not /seem/ to create harmonies. Fire and Water - you said both control temperature - are, I believe, opposite ends of one spectrum in that regard. Additionally, and this is a minor point, but Earth is not defensive, but balanced. Fire is offensive; Air, defensive; Earth is balanced; and Water reflects its opponent. Air and water use flowing forms because the bending arts emulate the elements to control them; air and water are both fluids, but there are notable differences in the styles as well.

I stll don't know /how/ we would incorporate the elements into the game, though I think that incorporating them somehow would be a good idea. If nothing else, simply assigning an element to the various flowers, even if it has no bearing on normal game play (I suspect that there are /many/ games played with a Pai Sho set, so there may be others that utilise elemental advantages). But the White Lotus wisdom that Iroh shares (as I suspect there are few other places that he could have studied Waterbenders) would be a good inclusion into Pai Sho lore...

while i agree that over long periods of time, a good earth bender will be neutral, said earth bender will spend a large amount of the using defense until the right time to unleash a strong attack, leading to neutral jin over time. also i realize that the similarities are also dissimilarities. in a set of rules I'm developing, there is a yin and a yang to the pieces, determining how they interact with each other. I think I'm starting to have a little to much negative jin though. Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Is there a set rule list any were, or something that will show me were you are in your work? I'm a little lost with all these comments, and I hope I'm not being bothersome u_u

I'm about halfway through, it needs some more playtesting and modifircation. Its still a bit somplicated

hi guys, i just wanted to let you know how happy i was to find this! i'm going to help out as much as i can, but unfortunately i'm not too good with planning game rules- after reading everything, i think i'm going to have a hard enough time learning the rules once we get it down. however, what i CAN do, is build a proper board and tiles. i have the means and humble skills to build a serious wooden board, but i'm definitely going to need input on how many/what tile designs to make. it seems like those ideas are still up in the air also, so i'm in no hurry. based upon the images that have already been posted (as a basis for reference, as long as the original creators are cool with that), i think it's going to be beautiful. who knows, maybe this page is the beginning of our own White Lotus Society?

also, while the printable pieces linked above are a great place to start, can i get some clarity on what some of the images are? a couple of the tiles look like boats, a couple look like some kind of squiggle lol. sorry, i don't mean to criticize the work, i'm just really focused on making the board as perfect as possible.

Hi BartlettMagic, there are more than one set of tile designs, I personally like Red Kutai's http://paisho.pbworks.com/Kutai-Pai-Sho as they incorporate all the known designs but there are some more designs here http://pai-sho.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/1172711-pai-sho-tiles

I'm interested in Pai Sho, but I'm mildly confused on which tiles are canan and actually make an appearance in the show. I plan on making a board and designing my own pieces, but I'd love to be able to include the known tile designs! I've tryed viewing the show screenshots in the 'Links' page, but just get an error and can not view them. If anyone could assist me, it'd be much appreciated. Thankyou. :)
- Shadow

In the picture of the white lotus, it shows them sitting with the yellow parts facing them not the red point.

Hello Shadow, a photo of the tiles that are clearly seen in the TV show can be found here. http://paisho.pbworks.com/Real-life-Pai-Sho-boards I have noticed possibly one more tile design in the show that is not so clearly seen which is a red flower with four petals http://DVDscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/113/190.jpg

What episode do we see the lower left piece in this picture: http://paisho.pbworks.com/f/1222391954/Paipcs1.jpg ? I haven't seen it yet. (Also, I have a couple [4] large vector designs, based on all the canon tiles, that I am willing to share. Do I make a new page for them, or put them in the pre-existing "Tiles" page?)

Hmm. I don't recall immediately where that piece comes from; I'll look, though, and let you know when I find it.

As for where to include your new images, you're free to include them on the existing Tiles page, given that they're all canon designs; due to the discrepancy between tile sets, I think we have heretofore foregone showing any particular set on main Tiles page. If the images are large, though, you may opt to make a separate page, and simply link to that page from the main Tiles page...

Thanks for the quick response, I've made a separate page name "Large Tiles" and linked it to the standard "Tiles". That page will eventually have two sections, "Canonical" and "Non-canonical", since I plan on finishing the set, using your tiles as reference (It's the most complete and the style/rules I like the most).

Hi Brandon the tile you refer to can be seen in "the Desert" http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/211/127.jpg

Ah! Thank you, I'll get to work on that one right away.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the tile in question originates from a different Pai Sho set; in context, there is some reason to believe that it's supposed to be the White Lotus tile (it is used as the opening move in the White Lotus Gambit). Personally, I think that, while the tiles that make up a set are always the same, the images that appear on the tiles could vary greatly, depending on both the quality of the set and the inclination (toward artistic realism or stylised imagery) of the craftsman. I like to think that a fine Pai Sho set is akin to what fine chess set would be in the real world: an exquisitely crafted, one-of-a-kind work of art. Thus, even though we have a number of tiles appearing in canon, I don't think that that guarantees that all (or even any) of those tiles (that is, the images appearing on those tiles) need appear in a single Pai Sho set. What they do, though, is give us a good reference as to the possibilities of what is and is not included...

Hmm... The only problem I have with the varying images is that it would make it nigh-impossible to just sit down and play with anyone. With chess, most unique pieces will have the same basic qualities, even if highly stylized. In addition, the placement on a board can indicate the type of piece. Since no pieces start on the board in Pai Sho, we have to rely solely on images.

On a side note, has anyone sent a note or something to the creators of the show and asking them? One would think that they'd be able to clear up some of the confusion.

All large tiles have been completed! Every tile included in both the Kutai variation and the standard version is available for use on the "Large Tiles" page. Now, does anyone know where a good place for laser engraving is? I'd like to do what Richard and Thomas did with their tiles, for both aesthetic and practical purposes.

Well, seeing as Pai Sho tiles have no text on them, anyway, a rudimentary knowledge of the flowers involved is to be expected, I think. Even with just that rudimentary knowledge, I would expect any player to be able to recognise the different flowers, even given unfamiliar images (each of the sets we've made so far has the advantage of not having many similarly-shaped flower tiles).

By the by, I'd like to say that I /love/ what you've done with the large tile images you're making; they're pretty much exactly how I imagined a high-quality Pai Sho set to look like. I particularly like the Cherry Blossom, which was one my least favourite of my own designs.

It seems to me that someone mentioned, a long time ago, attempting to do just that. Unfortunately, I sincerely think that the creators of the show had no particular rules in mind for Pai Sho, indicated by basic rules (such as playing on lines vs. spaces, and which way the board faces) changing from episode to episode. I would love to get their input on what the game was intended to be (and on the rules that we've developed, here), but I don't think they've got a definitive rulebook to release, or anything like that...

Hi guys, just joined here and would like to suggest something on the Pai Sho tile pieces.

When Iroh says he needs to find a white lotus tile to complete his set I think what he means by that is he needs to complete his special tile set.
This is what i'm thinking. The player has a regular set of how ever many pieces in the flower tiles. But special tiles are different, meaning you have to have the right number of flower tiles, but can pick and choose what special tiles you want. An example would be strategically you could have how ever many boat tiles you want, as long as its in the required number of tiles to be in a game. Sorry if this is not clear, i did my best...

@Red Kutai: A simple solution would, of course, be to write the names on the tiles. I think I might end up doing that with my tiles (Have the picture on one side, and the text on the other). I have a couple friends interested in playing this, but they haven't spent a weekend looking at the images and tiles, so they are pretty clueless as to which tiles are which. :P

@Ed: I actually like that idea a lot! It would add a lot of variety to the game. Perhaps another Variation page is in order...

I've seen tutorial chess sets with not only the names, but explanations as to how the pieces move; I don't think adding a bit of explanation to your tiles would be at all unacceptable, even if there's no canon support for it. Whatever it takes to get people playing, I'd say. ^_^

As for Ed's suggestion: the idea of a collectible element in Pai Sho has been suggested a number of times, though I've never been a fan of it. There are a couple of canonical reasons ("Some poor soul has an incomplete Pai Sho set."), but mostly it just doesn't feel right. I consider Pai Sho the Chess of the Avatar world, and something tells me that neither game would have the longevity they're supposed to have had they been collectible...

In the making of the various rules here we have seen a number of new tiles created and I am wondering about how people would feel about the creation of different boards designs.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by board designs, really; as for the tiles, we're extrapolating based on the limited information canon provides, whereas the board seems to be pretty clearly defined. I wouldn't mind seeing a similarly functioning board that looks different, but a functionally different board would be a bit of a stretch, considering that canon shows the board going unchanged over the course of a century and across continents.

Of course, it depends on the value of the idea you've got. If you'd care to elaborate, perhaps you could sway me... ^_^

Since it is important to stick to the canon as much as possible (or at least to some degree) in constructing a playable Pai Sho, I thought it would be a good idea to first look back at the episodes that include Pai Sho. I know the game is played in Book 1, Chapter 9 (The Waterbending Scroll), Book 1, Chapter 12 (The Storm), and Book 2, Chapter 11 (The Desert). Are these the only episodes in which Pai Sho is played, or are there others that I am missing?

A gambling version of Pai Sho can be seen in "The Blue Spirit" (Book 1, Chapter 13) with Iroh taking 'the pot.'

Thank you. But in terms of that game, did you notice that Iroh has a piece that looks thicker than the rest? Do you think that it is a thicker tile, one tile on top of another, or just an animation error? Here are a couple of still screens:

http://paisho.pbworks.com/f/Iroh%20Pai%20Sho.png

http://paisho.pbworks.com/f/Iroh%20Pai%20Sho%202.png

Anyone have any thoughts? And are those the only four episodes in which Pai Sho is played?

Yes, I did notice and it did cross my mind that his piece was doubled up. Also notice that the lines on the board are running in a different direction from those on the board design shown in "The Desert".

Does anyone have an idea of what the function of the ports is in the game?

Wow, you are right. I was looking at that board for a while, thinking that something looked weird. I originally just thought the ports were mis-drawn. But the grid has rotated 45 degrees from the other ways I have seen the board. Do you think this is on purpose, or that it was just an animation error?

hey guys! i found a set of rules online which are pretty different from the beginner's pai sho. but it actually wokrs, even though it is a bit weird in the beginning because you and your opponent share a single set of tiles, we had to figure out some strategies at first. chekc it out: http://paisho.blog.de/

yeah i think more tiles would make it more easy. it's really freaking complex! you have to really think about what you do and be strategic about the balances. it's like chess i reckon! i started playing the single player version, ithink it helps me improve

what does everyone think about the concept of gardens.(for more information find daren's comment and click the link to http://paisho.blog.de/) i believe it fits well with our previous idea about the games basis in ikebana. the only thing i dont like about the version shown is that there are two few pieces and you have a shared set of tiles which can never be seen in the show.

i think that it should be like a deck of cards too but i think that they should be able to pick and mix over a limited number of tiles like 100 or less. This would let you make the most of your resources like a military general with his troops and could possibly explain the shop iroh was looking for when he lost his white lotus piece(as how would a shop stay afloat if every one had all the piece?)

Wow. I havn't been here a while, I've recenytly been busy with a new job. It's good to see other people have picked this up from what I started. I'm going to have to take a look and try things out some time.

I would like to program Pai Sho so that anybody can play it online instantly, if you are interested contact me at jamezmcclain@gmail.com. I will be programming first probably wiki pai show, but will allow people to choose what variant they play. I am thinking this will greatly help out the game by giving it more feedback and allowing people to play against others easily.

I am will be mainly doing this project over Christmas break, I am looking for 2 things.

1. Tiles, I am a horrible graphics artist, but (http://paisho.pbworks.com/f/paishoTiles108.jpg <---these are unacceptable,sorry) I have heard other people have made Tiles in Photoshop or w/e, send them to my email and I will give you credit if I use them in the game. Again that is Jamezmcclain@gmail.com (Don't worry if you don't think yours look good, send anything you have, you can also request how you want to be given credit)

2. Programmers, not that they are really needed, this is probably going to be a rather small 1-man-needed project, however, if anyway wants to help, I think that would be great, I love coding with others. The languages I am planning to use are PHP and javascript with use of AJAX. Don't worry, you only have to know one of those to help out, or even if you don't if you know css/html well, you can also help. I will be using a Javascript library such as Jquery to provide the gameplay effects, I have not decided on what to use.

If you are interested, or have any questions or comments, email me and I will get back to you.

Hi James, new tile graphics for The wiki version of the game can be found here. http://paisho.pbworks.com/w/page/24174526/Wiki-Pai-Sho plus there are other designs here http://paisho.pbworks.com/w/page/27845179/Large-Tiles

Hey guys, a question. What are the "playable areas" on a pai sho board?

Since a lot of squares are cut off, some mostly, what squares can a tile be placed on?

So I know there's been talk of collectability and I agree with Red Kutai that collectibility reduces credibility as a global and ancient game because what makes a collectible game able to work is that there is some higher authority that backs up the rules of a particular piece. For instance, you need Wizards of the Coast to exist in order to validate that your MTG deck is legal. There is no such body in the Avatar world and therefore I have to agree with Red Kutai.

What I do think is entirely possible is that a set of tiles contains multiples of the tiles and the players can either draft pick their tiles or randomly draw them, but not use all of the possible tiles so that they can during their turn draw and discard, similar to many card games or tile/domino games played today or perhaps just draw in the case of the White Lotus Gambit. It's hard to draw the comparison with chess, because in chess there is a definite hierarchy of pieces, but it could be vaguely similar to either choosing to have 3 knights and 1 bishop or randomly drawing your bishops/knights from a finite pool (or complete set)

Am I late? I know, I am lazy. But I finally have something that works, although use that term lightly, it is a board that you can use online.

It only works in Google Chrome, and it is ugly, but it is still easier then building your own board, http://jq.dyndns-free.com/paisho/

I have been lazy, and I pretty much made the site in two days, I will try to make a better version, but I need help with designing it. I never really noticed how BIG the pai sho board is, Until I tried fitting pieces for it.

Anyway, enjoy.

@ James: Interesting. I sent them again, maybe it works now.

just love this game.... actually i'm trying to make this game popular among my friends,cuz i'd love to play it... but is there any site where i can play this game ?

coool James... i just created a Pai Sho fan page in FB.: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pai-Sho/167127606685100 join here please, to create a Pai Sho community in FB, and to make it a popular game :)

i tried it out. not a bad start. i don't know if anyone knows, but i have pics and rules, and some thoughts about the tiles and rank in the order in the folder "franks stuff"

i am trying to find someone to make a video with here so i can put up tile movement and strategy. i've had quite a few people ask me. i totally agree.

hey cyril, i started a game with arnold13 on facebook, but we never finished. you should try starting a game with him.

yes i do have one but it's not very long. it's not typed up yet. just finished the powerpoint, i'll send it to you now.

Guys, I'm impressed with the work you guys have put into manifesting this game. Just have a couple of concerns that I've a feeling might be able cleared up relatively easily...

First and foremost, after doing a little bit of anthropological digging around, I've come up with a couple of conclusions surrounding the shot we're provided of the Pai Sho board in The Desert (Season 2, Episode 11). If you take a look at the snippet I took of the board, you'll notice that there is a pai sho piece oddly arranged in the top right pedal.

<img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6519404871_2b41dfc90e_m.jpg">

Now, I know that this isn't CSI or anything, I just feel it's extremely to maintain a concrete sense of authenticity while developing this game. Because of the peculiar placement of this piece, I'm lead to believe that both White Lotus members laid down their full hands in order to replicate the insignia of the white lotus. There are 58 pieces on the board, so I suspect that each player is in possession of a stack of 29 pai sho pieces each. What do you think?

Shoot, you can't embed html into this thread. Here is the link for the snippet I mentioned above:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60419909@N08/6519404871/in/photostream

Also, I feel that the white lotus gambit needs to be revamped to more closely resemble the gambit we know from the show:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60419909@N08/6519404995/in/photostream

Avatar: The Legend of Korra due to be released on Nickelodeon on April 14, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiyqfthq19g
I wonder if Pai Sho will feature in the new show.

Hey, I'm new around here, and I really like pai sho, and I program, so... I'm making a Pai Sho program!! I am also making a web version of it. (but I really don't want to pay to make a website.)

Has anyone noticed that on korranation.com, there is a sentence at the bottom of the page that says: " thanks to the fans that played pai sho"? I don't know if they actually played it. If they did I wonder if they came up with a ruleset?

So, as you may know I'm basically just coming over from Lotusgambit, but I want to announce someting that might interest you:
There will be full-scale Pai Sho tournament in near future, orgainzed by some members of the Lotusgambit site. Unfortunately for you, it will of course be played by the rules used on our site there which you may not know, but as you can imagine, we would be very glad if there were people interested in participating. If you want to do so, please just contact me here on PaiShoProject, or next door at Lotusgambit.

Hello to all,
Im new to this space, but as a HUGE Avatar fan, i went searching for Pai Sho game, found out it wasn't exactly mainstream, and stumbled upon this. I own a mobile applications development company - www.theprojectllc.net - and was curious, if anyone wouldn't mind, directing me to the legalities about making this an iPhone / iPad /Android game. I would like to use the rules set as seen here, and could definitely use game center /facebook to link everyone together. Also i seen the version that works in Chrome, great job! I wouldn't mind building the app version I'm planning for Flash as well if there is enough interest. I am watching the series again for the 30th time, and every time i see this game played i get more excited about the idea. Thoughts anyone? i can be reached at tristan.smith@theprojectllc.net

just bought a white lotus tile at http://blazerdesigns.tumblr.com/shop as i think this artist did a gorgeous job, and plan to model my app tiles the same way, and $5.00 shipped for something so cool? i recommend everyone supporting this guy, very excited!

Greetings Tristan, one of the main problems with developing the game is that there is no complete rule set yet. As you will see there are several versions of Pai Sho on this site alone and there are a number of groups trying to create the game. One such group can be found at http://lotusgambit.pbworks.com/w/page/45592429/Home
Good luck with your venture.

thanks for the responses guys, i was worried that this may be a dead forum (no offense, just mean some of the posts were old) what i plan on doing is using what i see on lotus gambit, and making the game consist of multiple rules, I've sent a letter to Nickolodeon looking for the path to use "Avatar: The Last Airbender" in the game to use proprietary assets i.e. Fire Nation, Earth Kingdom Iroh etc, as I have very good thoughts for the game. Back to the rules, Ive bran playing a bit with what James has created, (great job!) and have my own thoughts on a rule set, which i have put some thought into using some chess elements. Im plotting out this rule set with my staff right now, and would like to review them with everyone when we have an idea. I really want to thank James, using his site is a great working model for coming up with a steadfast rule set, while trying to keep the harmony actions.. hard to explain as I'm ranting and typing out loud here, but i promise to see this through to the end, Avatar has really inspired me, i just hope Nick doesn't crush my dreams of making this official.

Well, no offense taken - check my www.facebook.com/theprojectllc and you'll see our website is in beta (I'm writing an in house app to update my xmls for the flash site) so hence the lack of a portfolio and a better RSS and news feed, but yes, that myCalc app is indeed my companies first app to go to the app store and google play. Ive only owned my LLC since 5/2012, so as far as in the retail environment thats closest i have. (little news pitch - yes exactly, its a skinned calculator that will let you personalize it with a picture, or say you don't want the cos, sin functions, you can swap them off for other functions you may need for more useful ones.) For lack of news on my site I want to add that no, I haven't done any games (through my company)...yet. It is a personal goal of mine, hence why i created the company. Ive worked for several software houses in my career, and this has been a dream of mine for some time. My studio right not is currently developing other apps though, (have to pay bills lol) for www.egnyte.com, we are making an Agile Project Management app that uses Egnytes cloud servers, they don't have a specific API, yet so Ive worked with Sean Puttergill over there to get it done. We are also working another enterprise app for Film Biz Recycling and its group ArtCube, a dedicated community to the film business. We have one game, and id love to post pics of the screen shots, that was first made with Corona, but that was scrapped in favor of using Cocos2d (easier and fluid) About an un-named (so far..) orphan girl, lost and alone in a graveyard, who carries a stuffed duckling, with devil horns. This and many other oddity animals are her protectors - think of the whole through something at something mechanic but i really don't want to get to much out there as I really feel like this could be big one, there is a lot of passion going into this, and the guys and gals at the studio have developed affection the same way for it...keep an eye out!

Im sorry to banter, but i just want to point out, yes I'm a new studio, with good experience, and projects like this are exciting to me. Ive used a contact Ive made to make a shout to Nick regarding use of Pai Sho, and the Avatar lore behind it, in the form of a letter, I personally do not have experience using IP that big, but hopefully Mark does as he claims. Has anyone ever tried working with Nick on these boards about Pai Sho, or is it protected by a CC license as its not for sale?

Also the whole ad thing, it would be the standard banners you see on Apple and Android devices and we'd try to keep it to the pause menu only. I plan to put 2 people into this project once i feel confident I won't have a suit on my hands, and an ad is just there to make sure i can give them a paycheck when the day is through, and would not interfere with game play at all, promise.

I am going to jump over to LG and start posting there, as your all right, thats where the action is happening with regards to Pai Sho. Id love to get everyone involved in it, but Id like a little encouragement that yes it will be a free app, but I just don't want the fan base to stone me for trying to get ad credits from the game, just want to make sure I'm getting my studio something out of it, as we will put our best into it as well.

i apologize for my typos and misspellings but my 12mos old is sitting on my lap as i type and attempting to sabotage my Mac!

thanks osuji will do right now! appreciate it!

Hello

I am a Windows programmer and i am also interested in pai sho
I can make a program for pai sho with the next features:

Multiplayer (2 to 4)
Singelplayer
3d graphics
Modifyable rules, tiles etc
A save function for a in-progress game,
A "snapshot" function for saving turn data individually
A undo button
A record button for saving the entire game (also the real time elapse between turns if you want)
And more if you want

how to create a harmony? is created with a square in the middle, so you can bring a rock to block it? as block harmonies with rocks or wheels?

Hi Rodrigo, this forum isn't very active try asking here http://lotusgambit.pbworks.com/w/page/45592429/Home

Hey guys! I'm fairly new here. I am currently making my own Pai Sho board game and tiles. I will be playing extensively with my friends in a couple of weeks (2-3). We will be able to test many rules. I will probably create a page indicating the rules variation we used and the results (fun, not fun, hard, easy, etc). I'll keep you posted soon. Making the tiles is really a lot of work!
-Jeremie

Hi,
So listen... I know I'm something like 3 years late, BUT Pai Sho is really important to me. I've tried to improve the Wiki Pai Sho rules set by myself - but I couldn't do it alone.
I'm sure that by now you all probably have more important things to worry about, but if you have time PLEASE add a comment and let's build an appropriate rule set.
As I said - I REALLY want to make Pai Sho an appropriate game - and further - it should really be "more than just a game".
Since no one has visited this site for like 2 years, I will write this in several places so there will be a better chance for ANYONE to see that. Please, if you see this comment and you want to help me and write back - write in the front page (I wrote it there too) so I won't have to look for it everywhere.
PLEASE WRITE ME BACK IN THE FFRONT PAGE!!!

What is the difference between this site and LotusGambit? As near as I can tell, Lotus gambit is a site that is one set one rules that is being changed, where as this site has several variants with each being correct in there own right. Does LotusGambits rules set have a page on this site? and is there a difference that I haven't noticed on the other site?

I'm working on a set of rules called Skud Pai Sho. Skud Pai Sho is my official Pai Sho variant based heavily on the various existing community rules, intended to be a comprehensive set of rules that make the game fun, competitive, and strategic. I just published my first draft of the rules: https://burnsoftware.wordpress.com/skudpaisho/

Hi all! I've been working on Skud Pai Sho for a while now, and just wanted to share that http://skudpaisho.com/ is in the works for playing online!

Calling all Pai Sho lovers! Some final tweaks have been made to Skud Pai Sho, and you should try it and see if it isn't the best Pai Sho game you've ever seen. Links to learn about it and to join me in a game (yeah, it's playable online!) are at https://skudpaisho.wordpress.com/skud-quick-reference/

Skud Pai Sho update:
- An artist contacted me with thoughts on redesigning the Basic Flower Tiles, and has created new images for all the tiles, and they are now the default on http://skudpaisho.com/ - See http://hector-lowe.com/ for more from the artist. An option to switch between tile designs is at the bottom of the main description/help text area.

- I'm planning on hosting an online Pai Sho tournament and awarding a set of tiles from Lyris Laser Studio to the winner! There is enough interest for a small tournament, so I'm setting it up. If anyone sees this in time and would like to participate, visit and read https://skudpaisho.wordpress.com/tournaments/

Just a quick update. The Garden Gate is very busy, and there was a Skud Pai Sho tournament with over 50 players, much excitement and livestreaming, quite fun! Also now on SkudPaiSho.com you can use the "Pai Sho Playground" "game" to playtest nearly anything you can think of and can create game setups to quickly share with others to playtest. People have used it to play Nick Pai Sho, their own games, it could be used to play Wiki Pai Sho or The Lotus Gambit rules, etc.